Best Chronic Neck & Back Pain Relief Protocol (Case Study) with Dr. Sue May, DPT | WBWL Ep 111

We join Dr. Sue May, PT, DPT to discuss how she was able to help one of our clients overcome 5+ years of chronic neck & back pain in less than 2 weeks through our online coaching program.

For a free consultation, watch this video & follow the steps. We’ll map out a plan and provide you a guaranteed roadmap to eliminate your pain with our help: https://go.flexwithdoctorjay.com/pain-free-coaching-program

Listen to this in depth conversation on how we help our clients relieve chronic neck and back pain, and the steps our client took to go from an 8-9/10 pain daily, down to 1-2 in less than a month.

Transcript

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Welcome guys. This is Dr. Jason Won, lifestyle physical therapist, and I run a successful online coaching program along with a team and I also have a podcast, Dr. Jason Won PT, and we also have our podcast, which is called the. Won body, Won life. What we do here is we help people not just to eliminate chronic pain, but we also help them to become stronger, more resilient, and ultimately build better, healthier habits for the long run. So that way, one, they don't have to use us continuously. And then number two, they can create the life long results that they're after. So who I have here is one of our coaches our season coach that's been here for well over. Five years, and her name is Dr. Sue May, and I'm just very blessed to have her because we've seen constantly the types of results within our pain-free program that have helped people to see far better quality of life. Dr. Sue May, welcome in. How are you doing today? Hello? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing good. Good. Happy New Year to anybody here. We're currently filming this in 2026. I think a great thing that we want to discuss going into the new year is people have like new year, they want a stronger body, they want a pain-free body. We actually are gonna discuss one of the cases of one of Dr. Sue May's clients that actually had immense success. And this is a particular person that. Seemingly has tried everything. I'm gonna let Dr. Sue May take over. But within three to four months a even less time than that, she was able to become pain free. And we actually didn't even have to lay a hand on her. We simply just coached her from our online program. Dr. Sue May, are you able to just discuss briefly, who this person was, what their kind of persona was, their job situation, what type of pain that she had? And we'll go from there. Yeah, so this client of mine, she she's a 30 5-year-old woman with a very demanding job that's very fast paced very involved as far as when she goes into the office, she has to do meetings, after meetings, she has to travel and also has to work remotely from home as well. But most of her time is spent in front of a computer. And so she had been dealing with. Neck pain for the last seven, eight years. And she had tried acupuncture. She tried physical therapy, she tried self mobilization, she tried CBD creams all those different things. And every time she would try to strengthen her upper body'cause she was told she should strengthen her body she would get major flare-ups and be in debilitating pain and would have to stop her exercises. And so that's. Where she got to the point where she found us. All right. And yeah, I was able to speak with her prior to me connecting her with you. And so I think what she said to me was, she's Hey, I've had debilitating pain. I'm a little bit skeptical of doing certain things because like you said, she tried. Chiropractic and acupuncture and many creams spent thousands of dollars in tons of her time trying to figure it out. So I'm just curious, like, why do you feel like some of those traditional methods why do you think they kept her stuck? I think they kept her stuck primarily because a lot of those things are passive. She's doing something to the muscle. Nothing really is going on physiologically within herself to make a change. Acupuncture, someone's doing something to you and there's really no taking control of her own situation by doing something herself. And yes, she tried to exercise and yes, that's trying to go on the right path, but without the right program and the right coaching that you'll a lot of people end up in her position where they try to exercise and then just end up in morphing. And we talk a lot around. Progressive overload. And I guess before we dive into that, when you first met her, like how did she present? Like during your like first evaluation of her, and then secondly is how quickly did she start to notice relief and therefore, hence get some hope that this was like the right program for her? Sorry, can you repeat that? I think it froze for just a second. Yep. All right. So we'll clap that out really quick. All right. With regards to how she presented to you how did she present specifically in terms of like when you evaluated her motion and her strength? So take me through that process and then also like how once you developed her program, how fast did she start noticing results? Yeah, so when I first met with this client, she, if you were to just ask her to move, she could move range of motion, I would say with a lot of people who have chronic pain actually look pretty normal. Especially in this younger kind of population. She's not, 75 with the very. Stiff neck. Her range of motion actually looked really good in her neck, and that's where she had most of her pain. But where she was stiff was in her more of her thoracic spine, her upper thoracic spine, and that's very common in anybody who works a desk job. And so that was one of the first things I knew I wanted to work with her on. And just giving her a good mobility program just to start, as well as seeing where her pain area was which was mainly in the upper trap area. Also told me a lot of information as to how much those muscles are trying to work and aren't strong enough to really deal with the load that's being placed on them. So I knew those would be an area that needed to be strengthened and most people. When you go to a traditional physical therapist, we'll say you just need to stretch your upper trap. Let's stretch it and keep stretching and stretching. Her range of motion looked fine. She doesn't need to stretch it and tend to forget that, hey, this is also a muscle that needs to be strengthened. And there's a lot of. Taboo around strengthening in the upper chops, especially with women because they think, oh, it's gonna make me bulky, or it's gonna make me have a, like a thick neck or something like that. But that's not the case. And so I really started her on strength breaks. Mobility breaks, as well as a daily thoracic mobility program. And within 10 days, she had gone from an eight out of 10. Pain reported my first check-in with her even after her welcome call down to one to two out of 10 pain. That's amazing. And the great thing about that was because we do have a team and a community, I was also checking in with her as well, and she was like, I'm so glad that I found the right program because sume has been a blessing. She's been keeping me accountable. She, I think she created a program that kind of challenged me, but also didn't flare me up. So we wanna always, I think what we're really good at is striking that balance between. Challenge, but also not overloading the tissues or the ligaments. Which was a very common trend with her. Hence why there was a little bit of skepticism when we were saying like, strength and mobility is the medicine. But she's I've tried that. So can you take me through a little bit of the process of. How you were able to get her buy-in into your philosophy and the exercises that you gave to her, because she could have just said, I don't wanna do it because of the fear of flaring it up. And how was your method of strength training and mobility different from, the other things that she tried? I think you do like really call upon a good point when you say you know the right amount of load. And so most people who are in chronic pain will tend to either not do enough or they will overload and they can overload very easily because their body is in this overprotective state. And so I've seen that a lot with people who've been in pain for years where. Their brain essentially is just signaling to them that the amount of activity they're doing is too much and their brain kind of shuts them down. And the way they do that is by signaling pain. And so really having a nice, really progressive incline as to how much this client was doing really played a role into it, as well as the consistency of mobility. When you are sitting at a desk for hours and hours or standing at a desk for hours and hours, your body needs movement. And so being really consistent multiple times a day about taking breaks and giving yourself a buffer really makes the difference. And then that allows you to really get through your day as well for a workday and your stress of your workday, and then it allows you to continue to build upon it as well. I like the word buffer. Obviously. It's something that we teach in our online coaching program through our coursework, and if you guys don't know what that is we call it a positive buffer. Essentially, if we put your pain scale on a scale of minus 10 to positive 10 positive 10, meaning you're feeling absolutely amazing, you feel less pain, you feel like you can just. Conquer the day without any stiffness. Zero is you're neutral, so you're neither in pain or you're not feeling good. And then minus 10 is essentially you're in pretty bad pain. You're having like a flare up. So we teach this concept to our clients where if they do the right mobility things that, let's say Sume gave our client and right after she does this specific mobility routine or a specific exercise. She assigns a number to it, so it'll be like, oh, it would be like a positive three. So we do this so that it makes it more objective. And so we say, oh, if you're a positive three, what if you did that six times a day? Then you're a positive 18, right? So then you're getting yourself further away from the minus numbers, which would indicate that you're in pain, but you're also working against. As she's was in a high stress environment. Stress in itself gives her a minus two, right? Or sitting at a desk for more than an hour. And I'm sure you know her triggers better than me because you worked with her directly and those were like minus fours. So you're working against this little bit of a battle between her work situation that is not conducive to her relieving pain versus how consistent she can be. So that she ends the day on a, on the positive scale. It was just why we call it positive buffer. Yeah. How were you able to teach her and also get, again, the word buy-in, but teach her about the role of consistency?'Cause I think that is a huge aspect of what we teach to our clients, which is if you don't change your habits and your lifestyle you're just gonna fall back into pain. So can you describe that a bit? Yeah, I think part of that really is experiencing it. So when she would be consistent with workouts or the exercise program, she would notice she didn't actually need as many strength breaks throughout the day. And so when she noted, and then when she realized she didn't have a good week with working out and doing her exercises, she would require more strength breaks throughout the day. Just even going through it and you can, you'll notice a difference within a week if you aren't consistent. And so the changes that you make initially, and a lot of times you are in this New Year's kind of state where a lot of people make resolutions and they might feel great the first week or two, and then they drop off on consistency for even just a week, and then they revert back to what they were doing, and then they're back into the same cycle, right? So she really. Because our program is a four month program. You will have some of those ebb and flows because that's just life As much as we, want you to be 100% consistent from the get go, and that will really maximize your results. That's not necessarily always realistic for some people's lifestyles like hers. She was going to weddings, traveling for work. Demanding work, environment with meetings all day. And and long hours at that. So building that consistency. Really is a challenge for some people, but once you realize how that consistency impacts your daily life, it becomes a non-negotiable, right? And it becomes a priority. And I think really understanding that your mindset has to shift and your mentality about your body and what it's doing and how much control you have over it and how it feels can really make the difference. A hundred percent agree with everything there. And I recently had a name change to the business, as and it's Dr. Jason Won, physical therapy and coaching, and when people go to physical therapy. A as it's a lot of times they're either bombarded with 20 patients a day or there's more stress on getting your documentation done versus actually paying attention to the patient. And we've seen that before. We've lived through it. Me and you, where we assigned somebody an exercise and then they were like, oh, shoot I got my next patient coming, so I gotta get my documentation done, there's a vast there, there's a differentiation and a I, I guess a mutual connection between the word physical therapy and coaching, and we provide both of that. How do you feel like that is superior or even more effective than just your traditional physical therapy? We're definitely much more all encompassing. Going to a traditional physical therapist. You're not gonna get the comprehensive education to really. Take matters into your own hands for the long run. We're here to coach, we're here to guide. We're not just here to do something to you and tell you to leave and come back a week later. We're here to set up a program for you, make you understand why you're doing this program, why it makes sense for you specifically, and then from there, there is a whole coursework of education that we provide that you won't get at a physical therapy office, and so understanding all that education and all the. Other factors that go into relieving pain because it's not just a physical thing, it's also a mental thing. It's an emotional thing. How much we forget that sleep is important or our nutrition is important, and how we change how we feel and how our bodies respond. So I think that you. Very, like 99% of the clinics out there, you won't have them tell you how many grams of protein to eat on a daily basis to help you with relieving your pain. And because this client of yours who went from a nine to a one or a two within just a couple weeks. She went through various phases of ebbs and flows, which is what we talked about. There's either gonna be holidays or travels that will throw your consistency for a loop. And why do you feel like specifically the word coaching is so much more important to give to a person that's struggling with chronic neck and back pain compared to these other, these other. Things that like, yeah, there, there's a lot of great therapists out there, but I think the environment and the program that we specifically set up really drives those long-term results. So why is coaching and accountability so important Ultimately? It froze for a moment, so I'm gonna have you repeat again. Okay, cool. All right, we'll clap. So the word coaching is very important in our program, and this is not just physical therapy where you're given exercises and you're being sent home, which is what you said. Why is coaching accountability? And specifically for this person, why was that so important for this person's success? A person that went from a nine or a two, nine to a two within just a couple weeks, got full buy-in, but obviously then life took over. She had some stressors and then she noticed like a couple flare ups here and there. But why is coaching so much more important than just like your typical like rehab or typical pain relief clinics? Why is the coaching experience so important? I think that's really important because we're here for you. We are your partner in this journey. As you go through it, when you go to a clinic, say someone has a flare up and they go to a clinic walls, they help you. They might give you a little massage and say, okay and then still focus on the same exercises, but when one of my clients has a flare up and I will premise them. Very early on in their program that the likelihood that they will have a flare up is almost a hundred percent because nobody goes through life not having some pain at some point in their life. And so you could have the most stressful week of your life, or you just sleep funny on your pillow and you wake up and for whatever reason your neck is bothering you. And that happens to the best of us. But understanding and learning how to manage that and get past that and stay control in control of that is something that you get coached through as you go through the pro. This program. I told her upfront, you'll have a flare up at some point. And so when that happened. There was no freak out. There was no gloom and doom of this isn't working, because she knew it would happen at some point, and she was taught how to deal with it and how to manage it, and how to get rid of it in two days and go right back to progressing her program. I a hundred percent agree. And so for anybody that's listening right now we're not trying to. We're not trying to say that o these other things don't work. What we're trying to say though is that when you have a coach that's with you. That's, that understands exactly who you are that can personalize the program to you, that can differentiate and help you to figure out why you're having pain. It's, to me, it's so much more effective than just saying, oh, this person has a stiff neck or a stiff thoracic spine. Let's just give'em these exercises. Firsthand that this was. Not just your typical like athlete that you can just give exercise and be like, oh yeah, let's just do it right. This person in the beginning struggled with consistency. They struggled with a very stressful environment. They had this seemingly uphill battle, which was why that person alone was just struggling by themselves. They gave or regain no accountability and no coaching. They were just trying every CBD cream on the market trying to figure out this pain. So I want to just let people know that the way that Sume approached this was genius. The way that she said, Hey we're you already know based on your situation, your environment, your time constraints, that you're going to have some sort of. Pain at some point in this program, now you can decide what you're gonna do, or you can decide, I'm gonna curl up in a ball, feel helpless, go back to, oh, nothing's helping me, nothing's working, and then cry about it. Or we can say when this happens, this is what you're gonna do. And I think that's the best thing about coaching is me, Sue May and our team we're chapters ahead. Of that person. We almost know the entire book versus they're just starting from the front cover. And when we know, and when we've seen time and time again after six years of this online coaching program that we've been through, is that we've seen. Time and time again. What are the specific flareups? What are the certain personas that we treat in the past? And we can therefore put these patterns into play and figure it out and say like, when this happens, like in the future, if it happens in two weeks, great. We know what to do. If it happens in four weeks, that's fine. It just gives people more certainty and it gives people courage to overcome their pain on their own. And that's why. And I've told you this before, that's why I get direct message after direct message of people years ago from like the pandemic saying that they are still pain free and they do not need another practitioner. They don't need a cream, they don't need anybody to solve their pain. They know how to fix it themselves. Which I mean that's how healthcare should be is empowering people to do it by themselves. So let's talk about just in general, just knowledge, right? How do you feel that knowledge of the human body, knowledge of how to fix your pain, how that is giving people, those long-term results the successes that we've seen year after year. Yeah it's empowering. Knowledge is power, right? And we're sharing the knowledge. We're not gatekeeping it at all by any means. We want our clients to really learn and really understand. How their body works and how their body is going to respond to certain things and what their body is going to need to really keep you out of pain for the long haul. And the amount of knowledge that we bring throughout someone's time with us is immense. Can some of it be dense? Yes. But that's why we're here. Yeah. We're here to break it down. We're here to keep our clients accountable to learning it. And that's one thing that I think people have to understand is that we're, we are here to guide you, but we're not here to do the work for you. This client, Doug, did the work. She looked at our coursework and she understood it. She went through it, she asked questions. And so the, as a client, you have to be an active participant to really gain this knowledge that. Dr. Jay and I all have already, and we're trying to share. But really taking it in and applying it is what's gonna really get you to that next step. And I think that's why a passive approach, never super seasoned, active one, right? Because when you are an active one, you put yourself back in the driver's seat, you are in control. So if you make a mistake. And you've experienced like a flare up or some bout of pain. That's what the coaching is for. You're not left alone. You're not wondering and trying to contact your physical therapist, and then you're going through their medical assistant and not being able to talk with them. People know that me, sume and our team are available. Like five, six days a week. I'm I dunno about you'cause you have a couple kids. I have a couple kids, but you have a couple kids. I reply to my clients anytime, any day because I care deeply about the coaching program that. That I've started and that you've been a huge part of. And I can't say that about other therapists. Take my word for it. It's like there's not a lot of people more passionate than us in terms of personalizing the program to the client. To making sure that they feel heard and they feel listened to differentiating what are the specific stressors and the multifaceted things that contribute to pain. One of the things that I wanted to address is more so just like in-person versus. Online. A lot of people feel that they need to be palpated. It, they need like somebody's hand to be placed upon them in order to heal. And we already said it and we prefaced it, but in, in what ways do you feel like the online coaching experience could be actually a better fit for somebody versus going to somebody, seeing them in person? I think lifestyle has some, a factor into it. Obviously, if you're really busy, a lot of people just can't go to a PT clinic at one o'clock in the afternoon on a Tuesday, right? If people are working, people are busy, they have lives. I think one of the other things is that, from therapist to therapist and online or in person, it's they're gonna palpate different things. They're gonna look at different things. So it doesn't, it's not the end all, be all to have. A therapist's hands on you. Just moving. We're physical therapists are movement experts. Even when I was working in a clinic, what a client told me about their story and their history and then just watching them move told me way more than just putting my hands on them. Putting my hands on a patient more often than not was just a extra confirmation as to what was already in my head about what their issue was just by looking at them. Sure. And so with that knowledge and experience, doing an online assessment and just watching someone move tells me 90% of the story usually along with what their history is and what their story is. And so I think. That. To that end, there's a lot of techniques that clients can do if they need some form of like soft tissue management or self mobilization. There are a lot of options that clients can do on their own and just are taught, with just like any other exercise, the clinic, you're taught an exercise, you still have to go home and do it. But you might only be seeing this person once a week. Now, the way our program is structured because it's, we have multiple calls a week, even though they're in a group structure, sometimes you only need that one or two questions answered, and you just need a quick demonstration to maybe one exercise. And so because we're available multiple times a week, it's much more accessible. And we also have a community where you can post something again. Makes it way more accessible as, as well as, just messaging Dr. Jay or myself as our clients do on a weekend or on a Friday night or they woke up. So instead of having to wait a full week to see your therapist again, we're right here, ready and available to answer your questions and give you feedback and so that you're not bogged down for an entire week when something goes awry. Yeah, for sure. You're going back to the client who's right now, she's been doing really well. I think just yesterday or a couple days ago, she's saying like she's waking up consistently without any neck pain or neck stiffness. Which is huge because that's just been a thing. It's been her life for well over five to six years or so. There, there's this common trend, especially'cause. The business is started off with me alone, right? And then as I have had great success with my own clients, I eventually needed to to find great coaches like yourself to fulfill that vision of helping more people.'cause I never, transparently, I want to help thousands of people, but you can't help thousands of people. Alone, right? I have YouTube videos and podcasts. But if people wanna work with us directly, a thousand, me working with a thousand people all at once, that would diminish the quality of care. Clearly. That's why a lot of places, like they say, 50 patients, every couple days, and that's why that's the type of watered down care that you get. I get it. There's a lot of people that say I wanna work with, like the boss I wanna work with, like the person that I see on social media. But this client and many other clients, dozens, if not a hundred clients, have worked with you directly. Especially this client who has had great success working strictly with you with less of me being there. Why do you feel like that was an advantage for her? Like, how do you feel like. Either based on her persona or your availability, how do you feel like she was able to get equal, if not even better results working with you? I think it's the personalized care. If you're if someone is, even if you were say, bring it back to going to a clinic, even, a lot of times you're seeing an assistant, you get evaluated by a physical therapist and you see their assistant, or you see the physical therapist for half the time, then you get pushed off onto an aid to do your exercises. And so really you're the main person working with you is your main coach. So for, in this case it was me and we really develop a relationship, and I really develop a good understanding of what this person's going through. And so I think that really allows me to provide. You know the best care really, because you're not only, I'm not only listening to what the client has to say, but I'm really working with this client to make it work in their lifestyle and what's gonna work for them. That's not to say that. There aren't certain things that I'm telling this client like, you have to do this. This needs to be a priority. I'm, in order for things to happen, certain things need to be done, but with that said, it's also, understanding that. Dr. Jay is gonna be working out maybe, what, six days a week, right? Seven days a week. Not everybody's lifestyle is conducive to that. So where can we find this middle ground? Where can we work with you to still maximize your results? They may come at a, maybe a slightly slower pace based on what your lifestyle is, but I think having an understanding of how to meld that and work together on that, I think really makes a difference. Yeah I definitely have a certain aura about me when I'm on social media whether I'm like shirtless lifting hundreds and hundreds of pounds or lifting six days per week. But this was a person that was like, Hey, like I can't even tolerate minimal exercise. And I, there was something in regards to we talked about this client before,'cause we meet up often to talk about all our clients, is that. Even a mixture of the fact that you're the same gender and that you can empathize in a way that I was not able to. In what way do you feel like either gender or your specific coaching style, clearly it differentiates for me, but we approach it with a very similar philosophy. How do you feel like that was very effective for? I think, having that understanding, not to say that all my clients are women, there's something to be said about understanding what it is to be a woman and some of the stressors that come with that. This particular client is in the midst of planning a wedding. And that is one of the biggest stressors of your life. And, I'm sure there are. Fiances out there that are involved in the planning process, but we, most of us know, the women take on the, of the planning. That is very true. Very true. I planned out like. 10, 20% of it. When it comes to things like that, I have a really good understanding and also, being a mother of two for someone who's not necessarily in that stage of life yet. But just even planning to have children is a stressor in and of itself. And so understanding that there are all these various stressors and, a lot of these stressors are very just women have these stressors, not men or most, men don't. But I think that can really gives a better understanding of kind of what their. It's very specific because we go through different things in different stages of our lives hormonally all those types of factors. So I do take a lot of that into consideration as to who I'm working with. Yeah. A lot of clients have approached me and say I really love, that's why we're working with you guys, is that you guys feel, I feel like you guys have far. More knowledge and take a very multifaceted, comprehensive approach that involves like nutrition, looking at your sleep, your stress levels everything in between alongside building our personalized program and keeping us accountable and ask, answering our questions and tracking your progress, everything that comes with coaching. At the end of the day, it's like there are certain people that Dr. Sue May and our team are. Going to work better for our clients and one is'cause they're available. Two, they can resonate with the type of person that they are better than myself at times. And at the same time like there's a lot of other stuff transparently that I do for the business, from the social media to podcasts and everything else. So I always say that people that work with us, even though. You know it, this business is called Dr. Jason Won PT and coaching is that I'm one person and there are coaches like Dr. Sue May that specifically only work with our clients. Like she does not do video editing. She doesn't do. All the other minutiae of the business, like managing the team. She just strictly is for the clients 24 7. And approached it with the same empathy that I do. It's just that sometimes my time constraints and the amount of people that I work with too. It's not available. So just wanna let people know that for anybody that's considering working with us we'll leave a link in the description so that you can watch a quick video on what we do. You can apply and book for a call. You can actually talk to me or my team directly to see if it's a good fit to work with us. I'll leave end the link, the description so you guys can feel free to take advantage of that. Lastly, Sue May, just going into 2026 we talk about exemplification and excellence and getting our clients long-term results. It, we talk a lot about if we're not practicing what we preach, then why should the person respect us? In what ways? Like how do you feel. Like the way that you approach your exercise and your health and your mental, physical health how does that play into the types of outcomes that we give to our clients? Oh yeah. It's makes a huge difference. It's, you gotta practice what you preach. I'm working out, for me, my lifestyle. I am doing my strength programs about four times a week versus, say, Dr. Jay might be a little bit more than that, but i'm still working on progressive overload, things like that. I am, my youngest child is four and a half years old, and it took me a long time to really get consistent. And so I understand the struggle of being consistent. But I under also understand the importance of it and why it matters and the difference that it really makes. I have two rambunctious boys that I need to keep up with, and my oldest is only getting bigger and stronger. And he's cleared 60 pounds. I have to be able to still lift him up and hold him if I have to. And I if I, I gotta be able to squat him if I have to so and so lifting a 60 pound child versus a. Dead lifting a 60 pound weight, not the same. Yeah. Yep. It's you. So that those are the life things that, you know, that I have to make sure that I'm there for me. I can't be there for my clients if I'm not there for me. And yeah, absolutely true. And if you don't lead by example, why should the client respect you? So something that. I always talk about is our work ethic and our habits and the things that we teach. These are the things that we're. Currently living as well, right? If I'm not working out, if people don't see that I'm strong and I am, know how to reduce my own pain if they don't see that I can empathize with either their kids and the types of stressors that are involved in their life, then they're not going to respect me and therefore there's not gonna be that. Again, that buy-in and that compliance that's gonna help them succeed long-term. So habits inconsistency is something that we probably push in our pain relief program far harder than anybody. Go, go to many places go buy a pain release subscription go to a traditional clinic. Like I said, there's a time and place for all those things. It can be, it can work for you. But I always say, and I put my life on it, that our program. It's, it stands for what it is. It's extremely comprehensive. We help people to not just relieve pain, but we help to change the entire person. We help to change their lifestyle and their habits. And I think that's why, again, that years later, although this is a client that we're speaking about that's currently still working with us that there's people years later that DM to me or DM myself and say that they're still pain-free and they're still living the life that they've always wanted. And being fully independent with. Their health and fitness. I've had a software engineer quit his software engineer job and become a pain relief coach. That's how much knowledge, like we said, we don't gatekeep anything. I really hope that this gives people perspective on a client, a specific client case that, year after years of trying everything, that they finally found good results within just a couple weeks and are still doing extremely well. And I really hope that this gives people hope. It gives people inspiration, it gives people a sense of a different perspective on healthcare and how healthcare should be. Sumay, is there any, anything else that you wanna leave our audience with in terms of. Whether it's a client that's struggling with pain, whether it's a parent or an athlete, that they're contemplating working with someone and wanting those long-term results. Is there anything else that you wanna leave our audience with? Yeah. We're here for you. That's the main thing. It's one of those things where, it's, I think the amount of like how passionate Dr. Jay and I are about. Helping people live their best life, and it's not even just getting out of pain. It's really it's to live your life and to live it well. And to live it without pain is just one of the steps, right? I think that's only a part of the picture, even though we are a pain relief program, it's so much more, I feel yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'm gonna end this year. Thank you Sue May for joining me and to share one of your successes with one of our clients with. Pretty debilitating, severe chronic pain. And anybody out there that is looking not just to eliminate pain, but like what Dr. Sue May said, to change everything from within, change your behavior, change potentially the lifestyle that may have led you. So feeling that pain is to work with us. This is an open invite, so if anybody has any questions, I'm available through Instagram. You can direct message me. You can also ask me questions about our program and our coaches, but also if you just wanna take the next steps and to really step over the line and say, I'm committed to. Getting rid of pain and changing my life. Then what you can do is click the link in the description and you'll be taken to a quick video that just prefaces what we're about which sum may already did a great job doing now. And then you can book it for a call and then get onboarded into our Pain Free Academy program and then we can pair you up with a coach. So that's it, and sum may. Thank you so much. Happy New Year everybody who join for you joining us, and we'll see you on the next one.